Here is my latest project - the military residency wiki. As a student, I felt…
Military vs Civilian Residency for HPSP Students
A reader recently asked me a question about choosing residencies. Specifically, he wanted to know about the reasons why I chose to request civilian deferral for residency. I have also received several questions about the actual process of applying for a civilian deferral and going through the military and civilian match, and I wrote a post on that subject here.
For the purposes of this post, I will be using a hypothetical resident who is completing a four-year residency and who has a four-year active duty service commitment, such as someone who received a four-year HPSP scholarship.
If you aren’t sure whether you want a civilian deferral, there are several things to consider
- Money
- Career plans after your minimum active duty commitment
- Specialty choice
- Family considerations
First, let’s talk money. If you enter a civilian residency, as of 2015, you can expect to make about $50-55k/year. As a new O-3 (new medical school graduate) in a military residency, your total compensation is closer to $70-75k/year. In other words, you will make about $20k less per year in a civilian residency than you will in a military residency. You also pay more for your family’s medical care (and for child care) as a civilian than if you are in the military, making the effective pay difference bigger if you have a family.
Then there is the money you will make during your active duty service commitment. If you complete a military residency, you will accrue years of service. This means that you will make more money per year during your active duty service commitment (4 years for most HPSP students) if you complete a military residency than if you complete a civilian residency. If you complete a 4-year residency, that means you will make $1,300 more per month in the beginning of your active duty commitment if you complete a military residency.
If you decide to stay in the military, how much money will you lose over your career by doing a civilian residency?
These years of service also qualify you for promotion during your active duty service commitment which would be otherwise unavailable to you, and promotions also come with a pay raise.
The combination of additional years of service for pay, and a promotion to major, means that a resident on a 4-year scholarship who has completed a 4-year residency will make about $50k more during their 4 years of active duty service if they complete a military residency.
Overall, this means that, for a resident completing a 4-year residency and with a 4-year active duty commitment, the choice to do a civilian deferred residency will cost you about $130k over those eight years. Keep that number in mind as you read the rest of this post.
Next, it’s important to consider your career plans after your initial active duty service commitment. Those lost years of service will continue to hurt your paycheck as long as you stay in the military. If you plan to stay in until you reach retirement, that lost pay will continue to sting to the tune of $1k per month until you retire. Ouch.
If, on the other hand, you plan to leave the military at the end of your active duty commitment, it may be helpful to complete your residency in a civilian program. Why?
- To get experience working in a civilian hospital. Civilian hospitals work differently than military hospitals in terms of staffing, reimbursement, charting, and some other aspects of patient care.
- To build relationships and connections with civilians who you might want to work for in the future. If, for example, you know that you want to work in northern California after you leave the military, it may be helpful to do a residency in that area. That way, when you are getting ready to find a civilian job, you will have local connections who can vouch for you.
- To see patients and pathologies that you may not see in a military program. Depending on your specialty, your patient population may be very different in the military than it will be in civilian practice. In my field (OB/GYN), for example, I found that certain diseases were much more common in the patients I saw at the civilian hospitals than in the military patients. In the civilian hospital where I am currently completing my residency, I regularly have patients roll into labor and delivery on an ambulance stretcher, screaming, with no prenatal care and a history of heavy cocaine use throughout pregnancy. That doesn’t really happen in the military programs. Since I am planning to spend most of my career in the civilian world, I wanted to gain practice and experience treating these patients for when I come across them as an attending.
Specialty choice also matters. Pediatrics may not be terribly different in the military vs in the civilian world – I don’t know. I mean, in general, kids are pretty healthy, right? In OB/GYN, civilian patients have a nasty habit of neglecting their medical care if they don’t have insurance (or are doing naughty things like shooting up heroin), and reappearing only when they have advanced cancer or are in labor. That’s less of an issue in the military, where people tend not to be smoking crack during their pregnancies (and medical care is free.)
And, of course, the pay difference between military and civilian work after residency depends on your specialty, which might influence your choice about whether to stay in. ENTs and neurosurgeons make a lot less money in the military than they do as civilians, but that difference is much smaller for, say, pediatricians.
Think about your family obligations. Is your spouse limited to big cities by his job? Is your fiancee going through the civilian match and you want to couples match? Are your parents elderly and ill? Do you have a child with special medical or educational needs? Is your whole family in Texas and you really want to stay there? All of these are worth considering. Sometimes, civilian residencies can give you more geographic flexibility – for example, there are no Air Force OB/GYN residencies on the west coast, but there are plenty of civilian residencies. Just remember to balance this against the pay cut that you are taking. Maybe you want to live in New York City, but is it worth $130k? Is being in the same state as your parents (when you’re working 80 hours a week and have no time to socialize anyway) worth the cost of a small house?
If you train civilian, you will have to pay for the move from med school to residency on your own. If you do a military residency, the military will pay for it.
And, of course, remember that you may not have much of a choice in the matter. The Air Force tends to hand out a fair number of civilian deferrals (depending on the specialty and the year), while the Navy almost never sends people out to the civilian world for training. Even in the Air Force, you may be selected for a civilian deferral if you ask for it (see this post for more on that).
So, what’s the bottom line? Should you pursue a civilian deferral?
It may be worth seriously considering a civilian deferral if
- You are going into a highly-paid specialty
- You plan to leave the military as soon as your commitment is up
- You are going into a specialty where your work will be very different as a civilian doctor
- You have serious family considerations (geographically limited spouse, special needs kids, etc)
It probably makes more sense to do a military residency if
- You have prior military service (you get paid more)
- You are planning to stay in the military until retirement
- You are going into a specialty where you get paid the same or less in the civilian world (mostly primary care specialties)
- You are single, or have a spouse who can easily relocate with you
- You have other debts like undergraduate loans, car loans, etc., and the extra money makes a big difference
Questions? Comments? Use the comment function below and let’s talk about it!
(Visited 19,887 times, 2 visits today)
Dear INDY, I am a physician trained in FM but want to go to army reserve and at the same time want to do IM residency and a Fellowship. I do not want any financial assistance from the army. My question is 1. Can I join a civilian residency while in army reserves. If yes , does that change my commitment with the army ??? considering that I am not getting any financial assistance from army. 2. Do people do civilian residency while in army reserves ??? Any experience how civilian residency programs think (during the selection process) about a candidate who can be deployed by the army. Thanks in advance for your help. Harpreet.
Thanks for your comment! Joining the reserves while in residency is essentially a no-go, because you would be unable to fulfill your reserve commitments while you are in residency. The people who are military reservists during residency are inactive reservists, meaning we are in a holding pool between, say, military-funded med school and an active duty commitment. If you want to do a civilian residency and then join the reserves, and don’t want any financial assistance from the military, the way to do that would probably be to complete your civilian residency and fellowship and then join the reserves.
INDY,
I’m a civilian deferred Air Force intern (almost resident) with 10 years of prior active duty service attending a VA residency at a major military hospital. Have you ever heard of someone appealing a situation like this and getting put back on active duty? I figure I’m losing about $500K through the 5 total years I’ll here and retirement years as well. Any advice? Thanks!
I’m not aware of any sort of appeals process. They make a big point of saying that the JSGME results are final, and I don’t know of any way to transfer into a military program from a civilian program. The only thing I can think of would be to talk to your Program Manager at Physician Education Branch. The latest phone number I have for their office is 210-565-2638, email afpc.dpame@us.af.mil.
I’m a current Navy intern being sent out to GMO. I’m in a situation where I’m not in the specialty I’m wanting to pursue (the type of program I want is not offered within the military). Are you aware of civilian deferments prior to completion of the commitment followed by payback or do you have to do all your GMO time and finish up the commitment prior to leaving and pursuing the program of your choice? I would take the hit to years, retirement, and pay; I’m more concerned about all the loss of years toward my training than the pay right now (I could have been finished with civilian training before my commitment will now be paid back and I’m already on the older side for an intern).
The civilian deferment situation varies greatly by branch of service. I’m Air Force, so that is what I know the most about. For us, there is an option for civilian deferment prior to completion of your military commitment. I know that the Navy tends not to give civilian deferments in general – from what I have been told, civilian deferments are offered on a case-by-case basis in emergencies only. My understanding is that the Navy typically doesn’t offer civilian training in specialties in which they don’t have a residency of their own. As with all of this, of course, your mileage may vary. I would strongly suggest talking to your JSGME point of contact, and a military doc in the specialty that you want to pursue. I think it’s likely that you will be stuck doing your active duty commitment before you pursue your residency of choice. I’m sorry.
I just graduated from medical school in a foreign country and do not have family financial support to take medical license or to get a job, my questions are: 1. If I join the army would help pay expenses for get my medical license? or help me get work so I can get my medical license? 2. In the event that I can get to a military medical residency and private work? 3. That would suit me more, enlisted or reservation?
Thank you for your questions! There are a few things that would need to be addressed here. Are you a U.S. citizen? Have you applied for or completed a residency program? Have you taken any of the three USMLE exams? The military can provide a lot of financial benefits, but they also have very strict eligibility criteria for each of their programs.
Hello Indy,
I have the similar question. I have graduated from Foreign Medical school and taking the USMLE exams. I have joined the Army Reserve through MAVNI program and will be going for Basic training and AIT in a couple of months. I will be naturalized during that period. After that I am planning to apply for Residency programs in Civilian hospitals and AMEDD as well. I will still be doing Reserve drills – 1 weekend a month. Can you please let me know what is the outcome and what to expect?
Appreciate your time.
Thanks for your comment. It sounds like you are in a really tight spot!
To make sure I understand the situation, you are saying that you have signed an Army Reserve contract, correct? The standard 6-year reserve contract? Did you enlist? What will your job be in the Army Reserves? As I understand it, MAVNI requires that you have been in the US for at least two years. How long ago did you complete medical school? What kind of residency are you planning to apply to?
As I understand it, it is nearly impossible to be a resident while you are a drilling reservist. Drill weekends cause a real problem with your residency duty hour requirements. The ACGME prohibits any employment outside of your residency for first-year residents, and mandates the number of hours and days off that you must have as a resident, and drill weekends would interfere with that. If you were deployed (or activated in any way), that would interfere with your ability to complete your training. The ACGME will only allow you to be absent from residency for a certain number of total weeks during your entire residency, which means any military activation could lead to finishing residency late. It also can cause serious problems for your co-residents, who have to do your work while you are gone, so I have a hard time imagining a residency program hiring a resident who is an active reservist. For these reasons, the Army says on their website about MAVNI that, as a doctor, you need to be residency complete or in your final year of residency training.
The only thing I can think of is that you can, under certain circumstances, be released from your military contract in order to pursue advanced training in the military, such as a military medical residency. I don’t know about the Army’s process for this, but in the Air Force this goes through your unit commander. I would call your recruiter and a military medical recruiter to see what options, if any, you have.
Hello Indy,
I’m having a bit of a tough choice here. I have 11 years of naval enlisted service and I am headed to medical school next year. I am doing HPSP, however I am very interested in either Neuro or Orthopedic surgery. The Navy has very few slots available for those specialties, would it be worth it doing the civilian residency in those specialties?
Brian,
Thanks for your message, and congrats on your acceptance to medical school! Have you already signed an HPSP contract? As you said, neurosurgery and orthopedic surgery have very few spots in the Navy. The Navy sends very few people directly through residency – most Navy HPSP folks have to do a PGY-1 (intern) year when they finish medical school, then spend a few years as a GMO before they are allowed to complete their residency. It is extremely rare for the Navy to let anyone do a civilian residency. They match you to a specialty first, based on the needs of the service. Then they fill the military residencies in that specialty. So they will only let someone do a civilian residency in, say, neurosurgery, if they decide that they need to train more neurosurgeons that year than they have military neurosurgery residency spots. I wouldn’t really worry about whether it is worth trying to do a military residency in the Navy, because it is extraordinarily unlikely that you will be offered that choice. Does that make sense?
For more information on this, take a look at these other posts. explains the differences between the branches, including a bit about GMOs. This one explains more about the civilian deferral process, but it is written from an Air Force perspective, and the Air Force sends a LOT more people out to train in civilian programs than the Navy does.
If you are offered a civilian spot in the Navy in one of those specialties, I would think about how long you plan to stay in after residency. With 11 years of prior service, if you get 4 years of HPSP funding, you will owe 4 years of active duty service. That gets you to 15 years. If you do an active duty residency in orthopedic surgery (5 years), then at the end of your payback time, you will be at 20 and you can walk away if you want to with full retirement benefits. If you do neurosurgery (7 years), that’s the same. On the other hand, if you do a 7-year civilian neurosurgery residency, that delays your 20-year retirement clock. I’m going to assume for the sake of math that you enlisted at 18 and got your bachelor’s degree while on active duty. So I’m assuming you are 29 now. When you start residency, you’ll be 33. 7 years of neurosurgery, and you’ll be 40. 4 years of active duty service commitment, and now you’re 44 and have 15 years of active duty time, meaning you’re making a fair bit less in base pay than your colleague who has 22 years of active duty time (because he did a military residency and was on active duty for those 7 years of training). Plus, he made $20k/year more than you for 7 years of residency… As a rule of thumb, the shorter the residency, the more it makes sense to do your training as a civilian.
Does that answer your question? If not, please let me know and I’ll try again!
Indy
“If you train civilian, you will have to pay for the move from med school to residency on your own. If you do a military residency, the military will pay for it.”
I’m a little confused about this segment. If I do end up training civilian what am I paying for my own?
If you go to a civilian residency, you must pay to move yourself and your belongings from medical school to your residency. If you train in a military residency, the government will pay your moving expenses for the move from medical school to your military residency location.
INDY,
I am currently a navy HPSP recipient on a 2 year scholarship, for which I owe 3 years of active duty. I plan on completing a residency in General surgery, which by doing by the navy will increase my active duty obligation to 5 years. I am currently in my third year of medical school. In your experience, would it better to try getting a civilian deferral to avoid the extra 2 year obligation or would the benefits of active duty pay be more important?
PS: currently questioning whether to accept the $20K accession bonus, since if I do owe 5 years for doing a get surgery residency I would be missing out on the funds ( initially refused it because of the increased 1-year obligation for accepting it)
Thanks
Thanks for your question! It sounds like you want to leave the military when you are done with your initial commitment, in which case you may benefit from getting experience with the civilian world in a civilian residency if you can get it (learning about billing, etc). Service commitments aside, though, I will say that it is very unlikely that the Navy will grant a civilian deferral for general surgery unless things have changed significantly.
Hello,
I am a current resident on a deferment. I did two years of residency, then 2 more years of research at a different institution on a govt grant. I am now headed back to residency to finish residency. However, I wish to finish my last 3 years at a different institution (for family reasons). If i get a position at a different institution, does this have to be approved by jsgme? I am going to be finishing at the same time regardless of where I finish my training.
It is my understanding that Physician Education Branch needs to be notified of and approve any such changes. JSGME determines who gets which residencies, Physician Education Branch owns you while you are actually in training and manages your contracts.
Hello,
I am not an average Navy student and do not have any connections to the military. I am about to graduate from a four year university and will have a bachelors in science. I initially looked into joining the navy for PT school and have since switched into looking at medical schools also the Navy route. I am starting from scratch and would like to know if a civilian or military residency is a better fit. I’d like to join a civilian hospital in a highly paid specialty (neuro-, cardio-, surgery, ortho-). My understanding is that I apply to medical school first and then military programs, then when accepted the military would pay for it. I got a bit confused when reading this part, but the military would pay for everything for how many ever years and then you’re locked in for the same amount of years of active duty? I don’t understand what is lost at this point, is it better to stay in until retirement or get out as soon as I can?
To help describe my situation more:
1. I have looked at schools such as Baylor, University of Washington, Oregon health and science, University of California, and University of Southern California.
2. I don’t really mind being stationed wherever
3. I want to practice a highly paid specialty
4. I’d like to practice in civilian hospitals but need to better understand the benefits and losses of doing this vs working in a military setting
What makes you say that you want to work in a highly paid specialty? And why are you interested in the Navy? If you want to practice a highly competitive subspecialty in a civilian hospital, HPSP may not be the right fit for you.
Hello,
if during my intern year, I consider switching specialties from IM to General Surgery, Would be easier to do it as a civilian resident or military resident?
I do understand it is difficult either or but any ideas which residency (civilian or military) would make it little easier or open more opportunities if I want to make this transition?
Sorry for the late response! That would be extremely difficult either way, and would require permission from your branch of service, as well as matching to a new residency. The folks I am aware of who switched specialties in HPSP were required to serve at least part of their active duty commitment after leaving the first specialty before they were permitted to apply to a different specialty. I am aware of at least one person who went from a specialty to a transition year internship, so that may be more feasible, but keep in mind that this would not lead to a residency. It would be intern year only, likely followed by active duty payback as a GMO. Why are you considering this?
My brother suggested I would possibly like this website. He was totally right. This publish actually made my day. You can not believe just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!
Hi Indy, thank you for this blog! This information is so helpful. I am a current HPSP recipient in the Air Force and I am considering a civilian residency. I have a 3 year scholarship and I am considering a residency that requires 4 years of training (1 internship year followed by 3 residency years). Could you please clarify how much required service time I would owe, if I did military residency rather than civilian? It is my understanding that although I have the 3 year scholarship, if I do a 4 year residency (1 intern year, 3 resident years), I will be required to serve for 4 years rather than the original 3 years. Is this true?
Amma, I’m so glad the site has been helpful, and I’m so sorry for the late reply. If you receive a 3-year scholarship and then do a 4-year military residency, you would owe 3 years back for your scholarship (basically, intern year is a freebie).
Great article. I think there remains some confusion regarding civilian deferment and credible years of service. According to the DoDI 6000.13 a year of credible service is awarded for each year of post graduate training required to fulfill the officer appointment that one is going onto active duty for. Later on in that document it states that time in the program (HPSP) is not credited but the program only lasts for 4 years while they are paying you in medical school. So my understanding is that for someone who did a 4 year HPSP scholarship, 5 years of residency and 2 years of fellowship for an appointment into a position approved by the military enters into active duty with 7 years of service towards pay. The DoDI 6000.13 states those years are for determining initial grade and rank in grade as well as used for determining promotion eligibility but NOT for determining retirement eligibility.